I have thought about what would be the best way to end the year at DDTTRH. My thoughts go to the ‘Epiphany’ and the dying of our old mission to ‘just get Duran Duran to the Rock Hall’ and the ringing in of the new one of promoting Duran Duran in bold and exciting new ways. So in this spirit…to give our old mission a formal send-off…to thank it for getting us this far…parting ways with it, understanding it will never return…not to apologize for it, but to send it off gracefully into the New Years night…I thought it fitting to share the answer to that one question that was at its core…and the answer to it from all the bands and supporters that have interviewed with us…Does Duran Duran deserve to be in the Rock Hall of Fame?
Reading through these touched me (as I hope it does you). I want to give special thanks to all the bands, artists, Duran fans, and business owners who gave of their time and inspiring words to our original mission of getting Duran Duran to the Rock Hall of Fame. These words will always be a part of us and we are proud of them.
Special thanks and admiration goes out to our very own LadyAslan (Anitra DeLorenzo) as well, whose dedication and commitment have been a prized jewel to our effort (and who did most of the interviews listed below). I cannot say enough about LadyA who has graced DDTTRH with her talent and leadership, who I hope will do so for years to come (and hoping she will stand with us at the Rock Hall when Duran Duran is finally inducted).
I cannot forget to mention and give thanks for the efforts of our Petition Duchess, Kandice Purpura, who helped lead many of the artists to our signature Rock Hall petition and showed amazing commitment to it. The Rock Hall petition, as you may or may not know, will not go away...it will be just one of the many things we promote Duran Duran to. Kandice will we 'powered up' next year as we find new and exciting ways to promote Duran Duran.
And of course there's Christian Helwig...BIG THING thanks to him as well. He created our amazing hubsite ddttrh.info and has made key relationships with supportive and relative internet sites across the world wide web. Many of you may have met Christian at Gimme a Wristband's party in New York. You may have also noticed Christian's promotional material 'touch' on our effort with fliers, business cards, site logos, etc. I am extremely grateful to him for stepping up when we needed it on the graphic artist front.
Finally...special thanks to all those who made or are still making DDTTRH's journey special. Special mention goes out to Josie Beadoin (our editor), Mr Mystere (you know who you are), The Amazing Andy Golub, Nabeel Shahid (who created our first, now nostalgic, logo), Nuno (for the great fliers), Salvo from Duranasty (for the periodic translations to Italian), Jason Henry, and many others.
With that...Au Revoir and Merci to DDTTRH's old mission...and Bienvenue to the new...
Patrick Doval (musician): Absolutely!
Nathan Stack (musician, AutoHypnosis):Absolutely. The post-punk/new romantic era was an important period in pop music history, and Duran Duran was one of the most significant bands to emerge during that time. They deserve a place in the Hall alongside contemporaries U2 and The Police, who have already been inducted, as well as Depeche Mode.
Stephane Leclair (Singer, Composer, multi-instrumentalist, Producer):Of course they do,they are one of the most successful bands in music history. I mean ,they owned most of the eighties, setting the standard of that decade for many other acts, and of course were pioneers of the new, then, video era. But to me,the main reason why Duran made it so big is because they had such great songs.
Like I commented on your facebook page,you can’t erase history,and like it or not,get it or don’t...these guys are part of music history,and they certainly belong into the Hall Of Fame. They even influenced Madonna who was inducted into The Hall a few years ago.
Sure they had a very strong image...but so did Prince,Michael Jackson,Madonna,Bowie,Elvis,and The Beatles.
Neil Carlill (Musician, Chcanery):One could argue that there was no band that defined that particular era than DD. Certainly they are important for perfectly capturing video, fashion and dance/rock into something new and sustainable for a very long time....They've sold 100 million albums and have weathered the storm. I think all of those elements combined make them one of the most relevant bands of their generation on several counts. So, worthy, they continue to record new material and tour that material (not just the hits), and that is a credit.
Pride and the Vanities:I’m surprised their not already in the Rock n Roll Hall of fame. They are pioneers of the 80's new wave and pop revolution. They were the 2nd British Invasion with a unique new sound for 'New Wave' and Pop that captured the world... Their sound is like no other with top billboard songs, Grammy's and American Music Awards. They sold more than 100 million records, so absolutely they deserve to be in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame.
RJ (the Poet):Absolutely. I was in my 20's when they came out. As well, I witnessed the birth of MTV. They were a big hit and all of their songs and videos were being played so they were widely known. Also I think that 100 million or so in record sales speaks for itself.
Tyrone Lee Needham (Musician, Ty King of Trash):Bloody right, in fact those boys deserves knighthoods, for their musical contributions ,and the revenue they have brought to the UK over the past 30 years, give ‘em their Hall of Fame honour ya buggers…or we will send in the dogs!! hahahaha (joke)
Alex Thorn (Musician and songwriter, In City):Of course! And also in the world catalog of GREAT synth New Wave bands (if such could be) of top 10 or 15 most popular synth/pop bands in the world they have great music, arrangements, promo campaigns as far back as 80’s and certainly original voices and visual perception.
Mystic Lady (Poetess):I think they deserve to get in for old time sake for friends and family and all those who where Duranies many eons ago and still are. I was a Japany, gutter heart and baby Banshee, but my cousin was a Duranie and I remember doing her make up for a Duran concert and her coming back from the gig and going on and on about how much John Taylor fancied her...........Yeah right! If Lady Aslan thinks they deserve the hall of fame who I am to disagree?............scoff scoff :)
Mortuary Mary (Poetess, Artist):Of course DD deserve to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame….way OVER DUE!
Uru (Singer/Songwriter):Actually, the question should be, “Why are they not already”?!Obviously they were pioneers of a great sound and style that has influenced the music industry up till today.
Aerial, front man for Lunar Dusk (dark wave Electro band out of London):
To be fair, I can’t believe they haven’t been inducted already! Their music has had an immeasurable influence on so many artists. I feel they have contributed a distinct feel, atmosphere and sound to music, attracting fans of many alternative genres. They are true musical innovators, and their legacy will go on to inspire countless generations of musicians to come.
Your Vegas:Yes definitely. They are without doubt one of the most influential bands of the of the last 30 years and their sound and influence is still clearly heard in many different genres of music today.
James Nights, Scarlet Soho:YES I THINK THEY DO. FOR A BAND THAT WERE PROBABLY INITIALLY SEEN AS A FASHION STATEMENT I THINK THEY HAVE SHAPED THE SOUND OF A LOT OF CURRENT ELECTRONIC BANDS. THEY HAVE ALWAYS HAD A GOOD POP SENSIBILITY AND GREAT SENSE OF STYLE. I THINK ENOUGH TIME HAS PASSED FOR PEOPLE TO REALISE THAT THEY HAVE WRITTEN SOME GREAT SONGS THAT HAVE HAD A HUGE EFFECT ON POP CULTURE.
Nigel John, Orlando DJ:I think Duran Duran should be inducted to the hall of fame. They have been around for more than 20 years. They have been a strong presence in the both the 80's and 90s music scene. And they have made some very good quality pop songs.
Gretchen Morganstern, Business owner, Adirondack Aromatherapy:Absolutely; and I am confident it will only be a matter of time before they are inducted - but the sooner the better! I consider Duran Duran as creative visionaries & pioneers in the music field, forever fearless in their willingness to try new approaches to their music - and their impact on the music & culture of the 1980's and beyond goes without saying. They have been recording & creating without ceasing for nearly 30 years and never stagnate - every new album is a work of art in it's own right.
Jake Niemi (musician):Yes beyond the shadow of a doubt; their contribution to the sound of pop music over the past 3 decades in particular has been immeasurable.
The Zips (Punk Rock band, UK based):Yea, why not. They had a time and place on the rock n' roll time-line, even if it was more pop orientated.
Oliver Gerling, Neongrau:Why not? And that is definitely all I can say. To be true, I don’t mind this subject very much, do they (Duran Duran) actually?
alexP, Twitchcraft (Electronic musician):For all of the contributions they have made, not just too pop music, but for helping to make the modern day synthesizer much more approachable within that form of music, they definitely deserve it. They were one of the first stadium bands that weren’t progressive rock, to utilize synths and sampling technology in most if not all of their songs. So yes, they definitely deserve to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
D’Edwin (musician):Well, certainly a ten times more than Bruce Springsteen!
Tenek (Pete Steer and Geoff Pinckney):Absolutely! They've been around for about 30 years and have contributed to the world wide music scene in a big way. The innovative use of video in the early part of their career was particularly ground breaking.
Fred McNeil (Writer, poet, activist):Ye for sure there contribution to the music business has played a big part in many Folk’s lives’ influencing many bands up & down the country
Jeremiah Saint (Industrial—death rock—dark wave—horror music):Yes, very much so. I am surprised that they are not in it already. They are a band that has inspired and touched many and not just with the music that has been written but the style they wore and what they stood for.
Lady Parasyte (Electro Rock band, trio of Kim K, Mark B, and Miss Angela):Kim K: Sure. They have so many songs that are sort of preserved in people's minds. Even if someone thinks they don’t know a Duran Duran song all you got to do is sing one of their tunes and people are like, “Oh yeah, I know that song!”
Mark B: Duran Duran have spanned 4 decades, sold record numbers of albums, and spawned countless copy cat bands as well as influenced fashion, video and music. Yes, Duran Duran should definitely be inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of fame.
Miss Angela: I do agree that they should be included in the RNR hall of fame! They’re a band who, like Mark said, has influenced not only fashion but music itself. They have stood the test of time, and they deserve to be recognized for that.
Calabrese (Horror, Punk Bank):Jimmy – 'Cause it’s been years since I’ve heard their music and I still can’t get that “Hungry Like the Wolf” song out of my head!
Bobby -- One word - YES!
J.S. Stoddard, Roughhausen (musician): Absolutely, their contribution to Popular/electronic music has been immense. Everybody knows their name and at least one song, which in itself speak volumes about the size of their impact on popular culture and music. Additionally, “Hungry like the Wolf” has become a common usage term for horny. Love them or hate them you know who they are, and you know their songs.
Adam Absinthe (musician):Absolutely. I have never owned an album of theirs, but their impact on the music scene has affected a handful of my favorite artists. They are the quintessential 80’s band, therefore everyone knows who they are and it’d be a shame to see them denied being inducted to the Hall of Fame. I mean how many hits do you need to have before you’re considered famous enough for a hall of Fame?
Chris Richards, T1 Music Australia:Not only the Rock Hall of Fame, but also the Electro Music Hall of Fame, the Greatest Haircuts Hall of Fame, and of course the Greatest Girls on Film Hall of Fame
Ron Yousha (actor, singer, guitar player):Yes, definitely! You couldn’t get away from Duran Duran in the 80′s. They were everywhere, MTV, radio, on t-shirts, and posters. They were the band that brought the new sound to the mainstream and made it popular. More importantly than that, their music was a mix of many different influences. They had rock 'n' roll riffs within their music; especially Bass and Guitar.
Blue October (UK Electro synth pop band):Definitely, Duran Duran is pioneering bands that have over the years have influenced many bands not only with their music but also the work with videos as well.
David Jonson (musician):Definitely, Duran Duran have stood the test of time so should definitely be in there, There are not many bands around today with the fashion sense and music styling that could last the way Duran Duran have.
Shapes of Race Cars (indie rock bank):Dylan Champion: Hungry Like the Wolf changed modern music. I'm serious. It was the first song to combine primal, animal elements and imagery with the shinny, yachting world of modern glam-pop.
That is seriously and important change - animals were always the exclusive territory of earthy, rootsy, loud rock bands like Led Zep, The Stones and Warren Zevon. Le Bon and co. married the two. If Adam Ant paved the way with tribal drums and war paint, Duran Duran took it all the way into the steamy, post-imperialist wilds of the jungle.
Bigfix music (independent record label):without a doubt!
80’s Underground (radio):Yes.
Enochian Sun:Absolutely. Duran Duran had a huge relevant impact on music in the 80's and without a doubt they stood out. I really believe that they have the staying power to continue to be relevant today. Their music has longevity for sure. You can't say that about most bands from the 80's.
Nylon Pink (pop/punk band):Kaila Yu: Yes Hungry like a wolf! They are one of the greatest bands of all time!
Kitt.E.Katt: Definitely! They are a legend!
DJ Shy: Yes. They made the 80s fun
Marc Massive, vocals for Massive Ego (Electro Pop New Wave band):I do think they get overlooked far too often for these kinds of accolades, although they did get a star on the Hollywood walk of fame and a lifetime achievement at the Brits. I’m sure their mantelpiece at home is bowing under the strain of all those awards that have quite deservedly been bestowed on them.
Amber Ghosh, photographer:Absolutely! To be quite honest, when you approached me for this interview and I read about your petition, I was shocked they weren't already in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. How could such a thing be true?!
The Unquiet Void, Jason Wallach:There's no doubt in my mind about that! I certainly feel that their first three albums were genius. I guess I'm a little surprised to hear that they're not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Eric Alexandrakis (composer, producer, multi-instrumentalist):Well they do meet the requirements, and considering how much of an impact on music and pop culture they have had, it’s a no brainer.
Engines of Necessity (industrial rock project by Jake Borman):Absolutely! I feel like rock and roll music has always been an ever-evolving mutant of various genres and influences, grabbing onto new ideas when needed and discarding the old in kind. If it weren’t, we'd still just call it the blues!
Jagged (electro/dark wave/rock band):Absolutely, Duran Duran was probably the most dominant band in the 80’s, their music and videos were inspirational and a household name.
Evokateur (electronic pop band):Definitely, they’ve had a very long and successful international career both live and in the studio with so many top ten singles and almost all of their albums went gold.
Blair (Electro Rock music):Yes, they are a great band who's done a lot for music and the music video. I definitely think they deserve to be in it.
TAWk:yes why not they’ve paid their dues.
e-gens (Russian Synthpop band, Eugene Titkov & Eugene Komarov ):Eugene Titkov: Yes, of course. Like other legendary explorers and guides the neo-Romantic culture a
new wave - Visage, Ultravox, Soft Cell. We believe that all these artists undeservedly forgotten,
although their musical work is still heard in the originals, remixes and cover songs at various venues
around the world.
Jan Dark (multi-instrumentalist singer/songwriter):They've had tremendous success most anywhere in the world, and they've been in the business for over 25 years, so I suppose the answer should be yes. On the other hand, the concept of a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame just makes me shrug and go “why?” I understand everybody can't be inducted the same year, but did they really have to wait until 2010 for the Stooges? What about George Clinton and Alice Cooper?
I suggest Duran Duran be awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics for their foray into brainwave manipulation.
Johnny Daggers (horror model, actor, director): Without a doubt. Be it their distant sound, look or artwork by Patrick Nagel, Duran Duran left an impression that you could not help but remember.
Owen Paul McGee (Ex Simple Minds):Yes, without a show of a doubt. After their initial success in the eighties and their continuing success almost two decades later as well as their influence with a host of other bands and singers, there is no doubt in my mind they should be recognised.
Oneness Darkness (band):Fuck yeah, these guys made some really fucking dope ass music over the years.
Special mention…the Sex Presley’s..although they did not answer th question about the Rock Hall, their answer to this question (What contributions and influences do you feel Duran Duran contributed to the world of music and fashion and social awareness over the past 30 yrs?) was fun…
they got girls horny over guy bands. And that's a good thing.
Lotus Song Productions (band, label, production studio):Yes, when you think early 80s pop / new wave, you think of Duran Duran.
Rubin Riley, Pump Tha Flava, Music Productionof course they deserve it! They had a sound that
I respected! I have played & listened to all types of music in my
life!
NUNO, graphic designer:Yes. Duran Duran during all this years proved that they are more than a generation hymn … they are a happiness hymn. A band that, since the 1980s have placed 14 singles in the Top 10 of the UK Singles Chart and 21 in the Billboard Hot 100 and have sold more than 100 million records, deserves a place at Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Daniel Richter, Music mixer, bloggerI was talking about the uniqueness of the band. I think this is the reason Duran Duran should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Along with the ability to write hit songs and reach number ones even after 30 years, release 13 studio albums and not repeat themselves at the same time.
Syclima, composer from Japan:of course "Yes".
Strap on Halo (gothic, dark wave band):Absolutely, we thing that anyone who can influence others and sustain a career in music definitely deserves that honor.
Andy Golub (aka ‘Durandy), Duran Duran Archivist:My association with the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame remains a cherished milestone in my archival 'career'. For five years, I loaned an assortment of memorabilia to the Hall for an exhibit. The loaned artifacts included 20 posters, the Milton Bradley board game, a selection of magazines, fan club materials and other ephemera. While a small percentage of the items actually made it into the exhibit, they ended up on display alongside vintage outfits contributed by John and Nick. It was a proud moment.
Working with the Hall introduced me to the people behind this magnificent historical showcase and I understood how committed they are to recognizing the legends we love. I think it's great to see you going above and beyond with your efforts, raising awareness of not only Duran's credentials, but also the extent of band support out there. It's easy to miss the gravity of how many people an artist has touched when the focus is on sales and statistics. Duran are one of the most enduring, prolific bands ever to emerge from the 80's, transcending decades of diverse musical landscapes and making an indelible mark in pop history. Duran deserves nothing less than having someone go out of their way to rally for the band's induction into such a celebrated, prestigious institution as the Rock Hall.
Drype, Portuguese Alternative Rock Band:We think so; it’s a band that has earned his way to the Hall of Fame like many others. We have a song called ‘Hall of shame’, but I don’t think Duran Duran is included on that category.
Symbiotik (UK band duo, Rob & Rowe):ABSOLUTELY!!
Greg Method, Make the Rock Hall Weird Campaign:I think Duran Duran is definitely deserving of a Rock Hall induction. They came into prominence at a very unique time in popular music. By the early 1980s rock and roll was quickly evolving past the quirky new wave style that had defined the end of the '70s; it was maturing. Duran Duran is a perfect representation of this era of rock and roll, this--for lack of a better description--mature new wave sound.
And it doesn't hurt that Simon Le Bon looked like a young Malcolm McDowell. That alone should qualify them.
CCU - Clitherow and Collins, united (band):Ian Collins (vocals): Yeah, why not? I think there are lesser names in there ahead of them. And you're certainly doing your bit to get them in there! But with respect … y'know, Duran Duran mean an awful lot to an awful lot of people, and whether they're inducted or not, nothing will detract from that.
Axxe (electronic music), Members…
Douglas Chow [programming] + Stina Agustsdottir [vocals] /// Live AXXE: Andrew Ward aka DJ F.U.N.K. [decks, electro percussion] + Pamela Brottes [backing vocals] + Sylvie Riendeau [bass] + Emmanuel Lagrange Paquet [visuals] + Andrew Larbi [MC] + A.J. Kandy [branding]:YES!!!!!
Derek Sumisu, Duran Duran in Review Podcast:Of course they do! A career that spans over 30 years, stacks of hits all over the planet, millions of records sold and innovation after innovation in technology, music and video seems to be deserving of such an honour, doesn’t it?? But that being said, apparently some music industry honchos don’t agree with my point of view? A bit of a shock really, isn’t it? ;-)
Whispers in the Shadow, Epic Gothic Rock Band:First of all I have to confess that I’m not such a Duran Duran fan as you and your readers might be, but having said that I really do like what I know of them, so therefore yeah they deserve that. Even though I’m really not sure if I get that whole Rock n’ Roll Hall of Fame concept. The music is good enough without such a thing, but if it makes them and the fans happy of course!
Steve Spears, St. Petersberg Times:It absolutely KILLS me that they're not there now and acts like
Madonna and U2 are. Seriously, you gotta wonder what brand of glue they're
stiffing up in Cleveland. But in a way, not being in the hall is almost a
badge of honor these days. Look at some of the other acts that aren't
there: Journey, Rush, Kiss, Weird Al Yankovic. Okay, maybe not Weird Al.
But our beloved DD will make it sooner than later.
Salvo, Duranasty:Of course I think it would be great to add this great recognition to the others they’ve already collected over the years. Duran Duran are among some of the most prolific recording artists and their influence and significance to the development of pop-rock and electro music can’t be ignored.
They have inspired three generations of musicians who continue citing the band as the reason why they are into music. Moreover, Duran Duran have influenced the music industry in a major way. No need to remember all the awards and lifetime achievements they got, their 85 million records sold, they’re pioneers finding a new way to present and sell music, their visual art, their sense of style which starts from the notes of their songs and it propagates to all the aspects of the band’s trademark.
I would give them the special mention for being the precursors of the Art ‘n Roll, Duran Duran is the very first Art ‘n Roll band, a great source of entertainment, inspiration and joy, musically and visually. With Duran Duran it’s a 360° experience, and their latest multimedia project with David Lynch is just the nth demonstration of their avantgardness.
Nick Rhodes said recently “At heart, we remain an art school project, we are driven by exploration and curiosity!” I think that’s the secret of this band and what keeps it so relevant, fresh and appealing.
NoPlacez (upcoming Rock band):Yes, DD is one of the greatest role models of the generation…While in my journey of music, I come up with so many bands wants to be like DD but the fake is never as valuable as the original… they were the pioneers…
Pink Narcissus, UK based band combining elements of alternative, glam, punk, cabaret and metal with echoes of eastern European inspired Yiddish and gypsy music:
Cookie:
Yeah
Cod:
Hell yeah
Spleen:
They wouldn’t be number one on my list, but sure.
Cod:
They’d probably be in my top 5.
Protea, Serena Toxicat, music experimental project in the electronic medium:Well, yeah. I’m surprised they aren’t already. At this rate Kajagoogoo will beat ‘em to it. J
Pete Ross and the Paesanos (band):If it’s good enough for ABBA then it’s good enough for DD
Julie Ann Rhodes (former model and actress):
I sincerely hope the Hall takes recognition. They really do deserve it.
Diverje (Electro/Inustrial music):Tommy Rapisardi: HELL YEAH!! They totally do! Such an influential band for the early days of new wave/ electronic/ rock!! They made a huge impact in the 80's for sure!!
Robert Sherer, Green Star Produce (business owner):Getting them into the Hall of Fame is just a stamp of approval that they meant something to so many people. If it fails, they didn't, I did. They are more deserving than some that are in there now.
DNR, Eurovisual band, Ash (drums), Sieg (guitar), Mantis (voice), Delord (keyboard):
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame recognize how important an artist has been for history of music regardless to his influences, and yes, Duran Duran definitely fits the category.
Tenboy, band, formed by singer/songwriter/drummer Dean Cook (formed in Birmingham):yeh absolutely!...why not...it’s the duranies....they have been around a looooooong time now! And they have definitely had an influence on pop music as a whole....so yeh what's not to like!
E-men (synth, techno, electric band):Of course they deserve being part of that selected group. Either for their music contribution to music, or their Sci Fi videos. I remember someone said as Pink Floyd over abused stereo, Duran Duran did the same with audio and vision.
Elliot Avnon, Discovering Arts Group:I don't understand how DD have not yet received the spot in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. A band that added a massive mark in the 80's and 90's i am sure if you will ask any person in the world to name few bands from the 80s Duran Duran will be one of them.
Special Mention, M. Douglas Silverstein, Producer, Director, recently released Duran fan documentary ‘Something You Should Know’. M also was not directly asked about the Rock Hall, however he did answer the question ‘How do you feel Duran Duran has made music history and are legendary?’:I think that its absolutely clear that almost no other band was as instantly recognizable for their videos, their fashion, their flair and their looks. At some level there are people who keep them in that 80’s box. Or they dismiss them in the 80s as being too good looking and didn’t concentrate on the music. But when I listened to the first three albums in particular I think that stuff is still incredibly interesting…relevant…its so clear how much they’ve…I think almost in the way that they’ve influenced so many other artists and bands…they were early sponges to what was happening around them and their scene. They have created such…I mean god…so many bands whether they even realize it or not owe them a sliver of their career to the inspiration of Duran Duran. I mean you could say in Something You Should Know alone, in the documentary, you got people like Moby and Barenaked ladies talking about how they were sitting out in the snow and in the rain begging to get in…couldn’t get in…Moby bragged his way (I think he said he used the term ‘bragged’ his way in)…he actually forced his way in to getting a ticket. And so these are people who…Johnathon Davis of Korn, just like them…these are people who grew up to have very substantial music careers…chart toppers and trend setters in their own respective genres and they were HUGE fans of the band. And not just like ‘Yeah, they were good’…’ I like that Rio song’ or ‘I like the Hungry like the Wolf’ they were substantial fans who made investment like what we remember being so turned on to them as young music fans. And they still dig them so they’re just like you and I and all the people covered in the film.
